a good good thing

Making a meal out of fake meat

July 23, 2019 Neil Thornton + Jack Ratcliffe Season 1 Episode 8
a good good thing
Making a meal out of fake meat
a good good thing
Making a meal out of fake meat
Jul 23, 2019 Season 1 Episode 8
Neil Thornton + Jack Ratcliffe

Whether it's ‘fake meat’, ‘imitation meat’, or the rather oxymoronic ‘vegan meat’, meat alternatives and their derivatives are big business. In fact, Barclays analysts estimate the meat-free meat industry can reach a staggering $140 billion over the next decade. Now there’s some food for thought.

But do you know the historical roots of vegetarian meat alternatives? Or what variations are being served today? From tofu, soy and seitan, to more modern plant-based alternatives, to actual animal meat grown in labs (without the need for a conscious animal, slaughter and death), this week’s episode breaks down the myths and facts behind the meal.

Keep up to date with us over on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter(@agoodgoodthing) and don't forget to rate, review and then subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. 

About your hosts


A computational artist currently undertaking a PhD in virtual reality, Jack is motivated by the positive impact technology can have on our day to day lives both operationally and emotionally. Outside of PhDs and podcasting, Jack is a proud dad to three turtles and an ever-growing number of house plants.  Find Jack at @jacktionman on Instagram and Twitter


A digital content editor by day, Neil is also a men’s lifestyle blogger at whatneildid.com where he covers a range of topics from travel and style to health and mental well-being. You’ll never find him too far from a coffee.   Find Neil at @Whatneildid  on Instagram and Twitter 

Show Notes Transcript

Whether it's ‘fake meat’, ‘imitation meat’, or the rather oxymoronic ‘vegan meat’, meat alternatives and their derivatives are big business. In fact, Barclays analysts estimate the meat-free meat industry can reach a staggering $140 billion over the next decade. Now there’s some food for thought.

But do you know the historical roots of vegetarian meat alternatives? Or what variations are being served today? From tofu, soy and seitan, to more modern plant-based alternatives, to actual animal meat grown in labs (without the need for a conscious animal, slaughter and death), this week’s episode breaks down the myths and facts behind the meal.

Keep up to date with us over on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter(@agoodgoodthing) and don't forget to rate, review and then subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. 

About your hosts


A computational artist currently undertaking a PhD in virtual reality, Jack is motivated by the positive impact technology can have on our day to day lives both operationally and emotionally. Outside of PhDs and podcasting, Jack is a proud dad to three turtles and an ever-growing number of house plants.  Find Jack at @jacktionman on Instagram and Twitter


A digital content editor by day, Neil is also a men’s lifestyle blogger at whatneildid.com where he covers a range of topics from travel and style to health and mental well-being. You’ll never find him too far from a coffee.   Find Neil at @Whatneildid  on Instagram and Twitter 

Neil:   0:09
Hi, everyone. And welcome to this week's episode of a good thing I'm new. I'm Jack. We hope you're having a great week full of good, good things. And if you're not well, you're in luck. Because from here on in, this is a good vibes. Only space.   

Jack:   0:28
This week I want to talk about Oh, what's the word?

Neil:   0:32
OK, just start again,  

Jack:   0:36
Okay? It is tough because it is called both fake meat. Meet Anna logs, meat alternatives, meat substitutes, Mock meat foam eat imitation meat, vegetarian meat vegan. Meet the whole world off. Words for meat that isn't meat.

Neil:   0:53
So basically, you want to talk about non-meat meat,

Jack:   0:55
not meet me.

Neil:   0:56
Cool, right? No meat meat that's

Jack:   0:57
names inside have added another one. There's only too many too many names. And also this different types you've got like in vitro meat coaching meet lab meat, corn

Neil:   1:08
in vitro meat to sounds so wrong, doesn't it?

Jack:   1:12
With your envy

Neil:   1:13
plate? Yeah, imagine that on there because isn't everything that I read recently that I got round me. I got an email about it. I don't know why, but it was a debate going to the House of Lords, where their people are putting a petition to say that restaurants and advertisers and whatever can't news things like We can't say vegan sausage or vegan burger because apparently you're not allowed to use the word burger or sausage because that is what the word is. If it's a meat product, it's confusing customers.

Jack:   1:40
So this is part of like a huge wide scale discussion around this. People could even call it culture wars because some people claim that their non meat industry are trying to reclaim well, trying to claim meat of something that it's not. And then people like What does me even mean in the first place? What is meat on DH? I am gonna go into all of this over the next. I want to say 10 minutes, but

Neil:   2:04
you liketo awful Well, I can't wait to hear it.

Jack:   2:14
Okay, So to start with, just a background of great Neil, why don't people like eating meat?

Neil:   2:21
There are varying reasons. There's obviously the straight up reason that people don't believe in like the mass farming of animals. For May, they believe in animal rights and so they don't want them farmed and killed because they don't believe that they kept whether have good lives. That's

Jack:   2:36
true, including the fact that cows have best friends they don't have, like, you know, places for best friend. Cows they hang out exactly. And pigs fourth smartest animal on the planet. But we know we don't treat them like dolphins or apes

Neil:   2:50
yet exactly, I think then there's other reasons that are environmental for myself. I don't at the moment I don't have red meat, and that's based on the environmental impact off cattle

Jack:   3:02
farming. Yet that is very true. This is really bad. In fact, just 18% of calories take up 83% of farmland. 60% of agricultural greenhouse gases come from meat production and beef results in 105 kilogrammes of greenhouse gas per 100 grammes compared with tofu, which is less than 3.5 kilogrammes.

Neil:   3:23
It's such a difference, isn't it? And I think this came up in the green New Deal in America as well. What's amazing is obviously everyone's up in their arms because the kind of more conservative armour just being like it's the socialist agenda. They're trying to steal your cheeseburgers so that they get like the populace up in arms. Where is they're like, No, no, no, no. It's just about we know that cattle farming is killing the planet. So why don't we look into innovations in their grain so that we help produce the meeting that they produce? And, yeah, it's quite funny how quickly they're trying to shut it down. Yeah,

Jack:   3:55
it's always Well, I mean, that's the nature of conservatives, Very like conserving things rather than shifting on any other reasons why people don't eat meat.

Neil:   4:03
The reason people don't meet me, they simply just don't like it.

Jack:   4:07
That is actually true. Some people don't like it or they have stomach problems relating to the consumption of meat. Another couple of reasons why we're here. It can be bad for your health. Red meat is linked. Health issues Processed meat is linked to health issues, although I should say that some of the issues linked to red meat could just be the way it's being cooked. The fact that people charming and charring is definitely carcinogenic helps cause cancer. There are religious reasons, so it is not halal. It's not kosher Buddhists, a vegetarian, so people have those religious and cultural reasons not for eating meat. Antibiotics. Those of antibodies get thrown into our livestock production to make sure the meet itself doesn't isn't harmful, but then that causes resistance to antibiotics. And also, some people think they're actually giving animals loads and loads of antibiotics is a really unethical way of rearing creatures like we don't flood ourselves with antibiotics. And the final reason that Aiken think of is it's some kind of weird monoculture. So we take all the animals in the world, and then we destroy all of their homes. Then we kind of just give a bunch of land for some animals to live in. 85% of all land mammals are now livestock that we consume 85%.

Neil:   5:23
That's insane.

Jack:   5:23
Yes, there's like 15% Wild Man was running around 85% just cows, chicken, cheap pigs that crazy Yeah, so that's why people don't eat meat, said of the reasons why. But some people, well and is more expensive, should put the end. It's more expensive and non meat products most of the time. Some people, however, really like meat. And so Neil, you eat me. Why do you like me?

Neil:   5:51
Ah, I don't know. It's weird because I think it's it's not something I think about in terms of thinking like, Oh, I'm a meat lover. It's more than like That's just what we had Is kids growing up? So it's just it's a standardised part of my nutrition. It's, you know, kind of as someone that trains a lot in the gym. Like, obviously me is my go to protein source have tried looking for MME. Or vegetarian or vegan options. But then, for me, the problem is to get the equal amount of protein in, like, say, a chicken. Fill it in tofu, you have to eat double the way in tofu, and I then didn't want to consume that much food in its entirety. So, yeah, I kind of, you know, I definitely like dread me. I did love a steak, so that was really hard actually to give up. But yeah, I don't especially about saying that, like I like it. It's just always been there, so it's just a natural part of my nutrition.

Jack:   6:45
So it sze not culturally natural. Teo Yeah, typically protein for the gains and also tastes super good it does. It does it like even Bill Gates. Totally ethical man. Favourite food is a cheeseburger, but on DH, you can't deny the cheeseburgers.

Neil:   7:02
Elvis essentially died for his cheeseburger.

Jack:   7:06
There are other reasons. Lots of people, like with top of the food chain. That means we should be able to eat anything like this in entitlement of being like the Alfa creature on the planet means we should be able to eat any other creature. More nutritional things. It's high in iron, especially a very absorbable iron. Tight by our bodies is high in vitamin B 12 which keeps your DNA and nerves healthy. Difficult to get in other foods, which is why it's often fortified in milk products. Also high in zinc, which helps your immune system and, I'm told according to supplements, gives you healthy hair and nails. Um, and there's two more one, which is a really small one, which is You can grow it in places where you can't grow crops like you have sheep. You can put them on very steep hills. They eat all the grass and then you can even see that accounts for a very small amount of our food production, and the final one is that this sort of ah is linked up with displays of both wealth and masculinity. So the idea that you go out and you eat lots of meat or you can keep consuming things or a big steak is manly, whereas over Jean Bake is if imminent and they're kind of I guess that's linked into culture as well. But that's definitely part of the the argument and the discussion. So there are reasons people don't take me. There are reasons people do eat meat on DH. The whole fake meat movement is trying. Teo, I shouldn't say fake me.

Neil:   8:30
Probably meet alternative

Jack:   8:32
meat Alternatives is tryingto kind of come up with a way where you can still have all the benefits off existing meat, and you could get all of the benefits off, not eating meat. But it's not a new movement. Do you know how long alternative meat has been around

Neil:   8:51
what tofu has been around for a long time? I remember cooking with it when I was back at school, so I got to say, at least 20 years,

Jack:   8:58
at least 20 years, you are out by him. 10,000% So vegetarian meat replacement products can be located if you trace the route back to historic China in 2006 B C.

Neil:   9:19
No way. Some reason, as you were like that really long winded approach to telling me the answer. I knew you were going to say it was gonna be sent

Jack:   9:25
to China Chinese dynasty. Well, they've got really good records that helps. So they've uncovered tombs from the Han Dynasty, which is like 202 106 BC toe like 280. And they found a method recorded for producing tofu, which I think is great, like, Oh, I'm going to get buried in my tomb. And I need my method for producing tofu with me. But it means we have this 2000 year old record off how to produce tofu as a substitute for for meat. And this wasn't just for emperors. In fact, it really started with Buddhist monks. So Buddhists don't eat meat generally, especially ancient Chinese Buddhists. But sometimes they would want to get people to come into the temple, give them lots of donations. They wantto impress their benefactors. So what they do is they invite people in and then cook these delicious meals on the rich visitor was expecting something delicious and meaty and, you know, kind of wrapped up with that idea of meat is good and wealthy, and it's a sign of hospitality. So the Buddhists the study to try and replicate meat as closely as possible using tofu on DH Satan.

Neil:   10:39
I've had state, and they used it in a bag. Mama's, they dio Is it plants? A town I thought was ex Asian or something? That but it

Jack:   10:47
could be a benefit. Yeah,

Neil:   10:50
it's definitely need to find what it's called. Yeah, it's amazing. They do it in the vegan Captain. Captain Currie now with it. Andi, it's actually really, really good. Yeah, okay. I've never seen outside of a restaurant I've ever seen it. Like you could buy that as a product in the store, there

Jack:   11:04
is super. It's not like tofu. You have to go to, like, health food stores or special case on. It's really difficult to track down Andi. I think I might be intolerant of it anyway, so, yeah, it's fine. I don't need one of three viable need replacements in my life. Um, yeah. So tofu, which we know is soybeans Satan, which is also soybeans at Processed in a separate way on DH. Really, China, for I guess millennia has been the heart of this process of making fake meat products, and they've got a long history of that. So, for example, they were placed eels with shit, talking mushrooms in dishes. They replaced beef with Satan. They were placed fish with mashed potato mixed inside a tofu skin. You could buy canned products, which would have started in the forties fifties and sixties. Off chicken, which is rolled up Tofu on DH kind of cooked in the can in a way to make it meaty. Roast duck, which has layers of tofu skin kind of roasted together and twisted certified crab meat, which is massed. Character and potato chicken's feet, which is cognac. Ooh, which is a type of yam, which goes underground and they turn into flour on DH. They turn out in tow like a gluten, which they make Shark's fin shark's fin Is that fake meat that they eat in China, which uses those thin, really thin noodles? Vermicelli noodles? Yeah, they turned that into a sort of translucent shark's fin and you can have that fake shot in super so Ah, whole range of these things have existed in China from 200 BC. So when I started caning things 50 years ago and two right now, so there's a long history. Indonesia has temper as well, which is another type of soybean based thing. Actually, Satan isn't being based. That's completely wrong. Satan is wheat based.

Neil:   13:04
Okay, Tofu. That might be why I had some problem with it afterwards. I didn't realise that

Jack:   13:10
Satan is made from wheat. They grind it down into flour. They need it together to make like that kind of dough we brought. You get when you need wheat with water. Then they discovered the water. Then they do it again and keep repeating. And eventually, that washes away all of the carbohydrates and just lose one big gluten. Rob gluten is very high in protein. So that's how you Khun, gains from Satan. Um, so yeah, that is the three main historical types. Tofu temper. Both. So be based Satan, which is wheat based. So long, Long history, off meat replacements. But in the West, we didn't really see this. We went around being like tofu was introduced in like 1997 there in Whole Foods. I don't think that was around, Yeah, but generally people didn't eat that much meat either. Before the 20th century, like in the 19 fifties, we would have, like 75 million tonnes of food production worldwide on DH. Like last year, it was something like 325 million tonnes of food production, so it's over quadrupled in that period. So we've really started eating more meat anyway, and I think that's also why we're seeing these alternatives. It's not like eating thes the current age that we grew up in where we grew up in the last 40 years, where everyone got more more meat. That's unnatural in the history of the world. But people want it because it's delicious and it's culturally valuable. So you know, people are now looking back to these more historical solutions, but also looking forward as well. And that's why I want to touch upon now is the forward thinking solutions to fake meat, which we've experienced.

Neil:   14:53
We have we have because I know we're going to talk about the Impossible Burger, which is one of the greatest things I've ever come across.

Jack:   14:59
Yeah, that's right. So we were in L. A West Coast America on DH. We made a special trip to make sure we could get the Impossible burger, which is a burger that's designed not just to taste a bit like meat, which most meet replacements are, but also to have a really exact texture off a burger replica. So it has to have that kind of ready liquid on the

Neil:   15:24
say it bleeds. That's that's the most amazing thing is it actually bleeds like a burger.

Jack:   15:28
Yeah, it's What is that called him A or something? Some type of No, it's not. Actually, blood in beef is like this liquid. Something is very high, and I in which gives its red colour Andi, make an artificial one, which they put inside the impossible burger. When I make it, they also take tiny flakes of coconut on. They put those inside to make it feel like you know, when you buy into burgers like those kind of greasy

Neil:   15:56
little hard, a bit

Jack:   15:57
greasy, grisly fatty bits. That's what the coconut flakes are in. So they kind of looked at what makes up a burger on that kind of reconstructed it from from the start. Otherwise, it is made up off week protein and potato. I think so. Impossible. Burger is a big one is also beyond meat, which focuses on chicken on DH. The's are both a modern approach, which said, OK, we've tried to replace meat in the past, but maybe weaken, spend more time looking at the details Both of these companies employ about 200 people on both valued it like a couple of $1,000,000,000 so there is some some market for it. It is doing well somewhere. They've only been around since 2013 for beyond meat and 2016 for Impossible meat, which is impressive because they were starting 2016. We ate them in 2018. 2019. Some outfits of Burger King now carried the impossible burger

Neil:   16:53
that was there. I heard a really amazing episode off the box podcast today explained they were talking about Impossible burger and talking about how Barry King will take it on. And I'm just I just want the world to move faster because I want the Impossible burger in London because, yeah, like it's it is I thinkit's closers. I think it's going to get like I as much as there was part of my brain that was aware that it wasn't a burger, it was 100% equal enjoyment factor of reading it like it tastes phenomenal. It makes a burger amazing on DH. Yeah, it just needs to speed up in, like getting out there in front of people to try.

Jack:   17:34
Yeah, it's it's true, Andi. Even that Burger King have taken it on. That was a good piece of press. I think it's only available in one location and Erica was trialling in e. I

Neil:   17:44
have no idea.

Jack:   17:45
I don't even know how to pronounce. I hope I got it right. I'm gonna cheque out this things that see, if anyone's listening from that city and if they're not, I might be okay. So yeah, well, one of the things that these guys had the CEO off impossible Berg was like, The problem we have is not what we think. Our product isn't good enough to be recognised as meat is that there's this social construction of masculinity with meat eating. And if you have any of the alternatives, you know, adhering to that definition, and there's lots of research that back this up. One study in 2011 by researchers at the University of British Columbia saying that vegetarian diets are perceived as Mohr Birch was but less masculine than their meat eating rivals. Even men who don't like meat so objectively they put down I don't like meat in the survey, there still Maur likely to choose meat. They're surrounded by other men, so there's like a peer pressure to be like I have to add the meat option I'm a man on this has been reflected in recent marketing campaign. So in Germany there was an ad campaign, which slogan wass tofu is gay meat to kind of mock tofu and getting people at the same time so that people would buy meat and you see on the Internet. So now very popular slur with the right is calling people soy boys as in Oh, you're a vegetarian. Yeah, you have soy products also linked, I think, to the idea that over consumption of silver has been linked, increasing the feminine hormone oestrogen. That's the one. Thank you.

Neil:   19:14
I have read that.

Jack:   19:16
So yeah, it sze, like all this stuff that you really think of when you have a burger. But actually, if you think back you, yeah, maybe sometimes. Actually, I am with out with people. I don't want to say I'm a vegetarian, just in case I have to have that discussion about Well, why don't you?

Neil:   19:31
Well, I think that that's it, isn't it? Is that there's so many layers to unpick in this conversation and for me in this two parts to this one? That war, where I struggle with vegetarian food, is that I love vegetarian dishes. But a lot of the time it's the preparation it takes for vegetarian dish is a lot of work, like if you go to a restaurant and have, like a proper vegetarian dish like it's been beautifully prepared and it's taken time, whereas obviously, when you're home rushing for lunch or you're rushing in the evening, it's not like when you're a meat eater and it's like you, Khun beautifully, quickly, seasons and me throw into potatoes and some quick veg on DH. The meat holds the meal together. You can't just do that like his three different versions of a pepper and like, it's not the same vegetarian food you have tto spend more time to do it, and that's the skill I don't have. And I don't know the right ingredients and how to mix it up and to really boost that flavour. And I think that lack of education stops people from doing it and then to that point as well. It is then, like you said, the the types of mills thatyou then make. And that's why things like the Impossible Burger and what Berg can you doing are working so well. And Leon in the UK does a meat free, gluten free chicken nugget. And it's that that same thing where you need to find the direct replacement like the vegan cat, saccharine waggon members, you're, I mean, you're you're meaning really kind of words out. It means you're not stopping that culture of dining. So, like if you can throw an impossible burger on a barbecue surrounded by men with a pint in your hand, it means you're not stopping about like, Oh, I've got to go in like boil my veg in Japan because that's what we have is a vegetarian. You're finding direct alternatives that mean these cultural situation still happen. Andi. I think that's where these meat alternatives are really important. And it means that you can still hold a meal together in the same way you normally would.

Jack:   21:26
Yeah, well, that's kind of backed up by Impossible Foods CEO Patrick Browne, who said that like animals, just the technology we've been using right now to produce what is a meat experience, Um, our food, which is defined by its flavour profile sensory profile. It's nutrition, its utility. So the things you just mentioned Onda, actually, his argument is that if you can make meat, which is if you could make meat alternatives, which have that flavour profile, which have that utility that ease of creation have that sensory experience similar to that of meat, they should be meat. That is what meat is. It's not just because it's come from a dead animal. No one goes. I need some dead animal. You go home, I need some meat. Andi Market research shows that's playing out to an extent because while 7% of consumers in America are vegetarian, 36% report that they have eaten or do eat meat alternatives. So people are kind of buying into that mindset going. Okay, Amita alternative is meet but just doesn't come from an animal.

Neil:   22:33
And that and that's what I say is that I'm plating toe that person's original decision to not have me. Because obviously, if if if you don't like me because you don't like the texture or the flavours and all that kind of stuff that actually you kind of may not want the meat alternative either, because you actually don't want the flavour profile of it versus if you like everything to do with me. Apart from the fact that it's killing an animal to do it, then you're obviously gonna be very up for replacing it with a on an alternative that doesn't involve death

Jack:   23:00
on DH. That brings us on to the future, which I think is the most interesting parts. The most scientific know that you know, the other parts aren't scientific, but the current school of thought the most cutting edge school of thought is that why don't we just actually grow rial animal flesh just in labs and then we can eat that instead of trying to fake it with vegetables, you get all the flavour of meat without the problems with the environment without the problems off rearing animals in court without killing animals without probably some of the religious issues that come with historic meat consumption. So you get meat. It is meat. It is the protein of animal DNA. But just without any of the suffering.

Neil:   23:44
I mean, that sounds slightly petrifying and something out of future horror film. But,

Jack:   23:48
well, it's it's super cutting edge, because only in 2000 and 13 wass the first Meet Burger Patty grown in this way. So Professor Mark Post, on his team, created a burger patty in a lab $325,000 to produce it. Three lab technicians took three months to grow 20,000 individual strands of meat, which kind of grew together to form the beef patty. It was cooked and consumed here in London. So first ever lab grown meat on DH. Apparently, it was okay. I have a food researcher who kind of reviewed it. Had that first taste that 325.

Neil:   24:31
What was expensive burger ever.

Jack:   24:33
You know when you like, make like a dinner for someone you spend like four hours cooking dinner and then it's eaten in 20 minutes. Kind of, uh, well, that was a lot of time. Three months ago in $25,000

Neil:   24:45
three minutes, probably to eat the burger.

Jack:   24:47
I mean, well, they had to split between multiple people. Person probably had like a mouth for 15 seconds of eating here anyway. Eso Hanae would slur says it was a real bite to this meat. There's something. There's some quite flavour to the Browning. I know there's no fat in it. There's some intense taste. It's close to meet, but it's not that juicy. The consistency is perfect. This is meat. To me, it really is something to bite. And I think it looks quite similar to So maybe Meet has met its match,

Neil:   25:19
although that the juiciness issue is going to become a problem. People like they're juicy. Me,

Jack:   25:23
Yeah, I mean, to be honest, it's kind of

Neil:   25:24
it's that's kind of its thing. That's also how it holds the meal together, because it is the thing that retains the moisture.

Jack:   25:30
Some mayonnaise on their vegan man. Yes. Oh, how they make this meat is they take stem cells from an animal, usually beef, because they usually make burger Patties, and then they put it inside this liquid solution. They have this scaffolding, which allows the meat to grow in the correct way the scaffolding has to be able to stretch, make the muscle fibres move, as they do in Rio. Live animal. Then they put it in what's called a bio reactor, which controls like the temperature and the conditions and the energy that's going in on. And they slowly that meet those cells kind of replicate and build up. There's something some study on pork meat, which says if you take just 10 pork cells within a few months, that Khun Shift, like millions of pork cells so it just grows out on grows out, cries out like how a yeast grows. So that's what they're doing. The company was initially funded to the tune of 7.5 million euros last year. The company that made that burger got funded another $15 million lots of money going in. They believe that they can get the cost down to around eight euros of burger by 2021 will be available to buy in high end restaurants. If you want this fake meat, you only need to wait two more years. That's insane for that

Neil:   26:41
Happy pay pounds for that, I mean, in fairness. Isn't that what load the burger chain's charge now, anyway? Isn't like a five guys like £9 for a burger without anything else? You know different.

Jack:   26:51
And the difference is you get it grown in a lab on DH. It's encouraged. Lots of Don't say copycats, Burt people inspired by them. So super meeting Israel Memphis meets just ink Mita ble. They're all trying to do the similar things. Tomas A. Meat, which was founded by Mark Post, the original culture meet creator.

Neil:   27:11
I just can't imagine, like, flesh being grown in the lab like I'm trust trying to, like visualise what that looks like in a Petri dish or something like, It's just so hard and it's it's crazy, isn't it? Because I'm saying I'm all for it because I'm just like these are the kind of things we're gonna have to happen.

Jack:   27:29
You know that 65% of young people will be willing to try it,

Neil:   27:32
and that's the thing. It's This's where it plays back into that what you said earlier about the entitlement with everything that's happening in the world land, Whether it's it's me alternatives or its plastic recycling. The biggest problem is people's entitlement. They're so used to how it was being it was being how it has bean, even though you can explain to them. But the point is, it should never have been because we were doing it wrong from the get go. But they're so entrenched in what they think they're entitled to and how they live their life, that it's so difficult to get people to just stop doing it and to realise that they were wrong in the first place on DH. This is the kind of level that you're going to need to go to because not only were you need to do this, you're gonna need to package it up and then put it in the Mi island but the store and then try and make it look as normal as

Jack:   28:15
possible. So I'm gonna push you one further. Okay? Okay. But before I do, I wanna point out that some research says that you could cut greenhouse emissions by 87% for meat production by using this thing, which is insane. If

Neil:   28:30
it means I could get steak again, that'd be great.

Jack:   28:32
You know, Right? Well, you know there's a problem with making steak because difficult to make the strands in the same way way. Patty's steak burgers are an option. But last night, even last year, April this year, a researcher came along. Natalie are Rubio, and she proposed a formula and a system making the lab grown meat even more environmentally friendly, on easier on quicker and cheaper. Sounds great, right? So, she said, All we need to do is stop making meat from mammals and just use insect meat. So instead of making mammal meat in our Petri dishes, we just grow insect protein in a similar way. So we make something that's never really been created for, which is, if you had a cockroach the size ofthe a cow, you would just be able to slice off a bit, and there would be or your protein us part.

Neil:   29:28
I have a job. I remember reading about that a long time ago, where they were saying that the kind of future of agriculture or, you know, fight against greenhouse emissions eccentric was going to be tied in tow. People needing to eat more and more insects. Kind of, Yeah, I'm quite happy that that one hasn't moved on too far.

Jack:   29:47
So not only is it insects, but this is eat lab grown meat derived from insect giant cockroach, mate. Yeah. I mean, that just won't actually be giant cockroaches in the lab. It would just be taking the steles. Probably mealworms or those kind of creatures. Maybe fruit flies because their very high in sync proportionally on DH just fortify everything growing just growing those out in the same way that they take a single mammal cell. We're out to make mammal me. They can't take a single insect cell. Grew out toe unnaturally large proportions. Service that up, we can eat it and go. This's very environmentally friendly.

Neil:   30:25
Thing is, like legit. I think it's gonna end up if it doesn't go down this route of the fake me or the insect meat, you're going to end up with something like, Have you seen the Netflix film? Is it okay, Diallo? Um I don't know how she says it lockjaw, and it's a film about in the future because of agriculture. And they've genetically created these animals that are like kind of like a giant hippo.

Jack:   30:52
I've seen that the Q tip over.

Neil:   30:53
Yeah, and it's like they're basically where a creature created by manipulation of different species to be really, really big, super, super meaty, but low in fat and they don't produce greenhouse emissions. And so you're kind of killing less animals because they're so big to get the same same quantity of me and you were doing less impact on I was like that. That's where I can see the world going, that we're going to create some sort of like hybrid animal that we can then just like kill less often. It would still be horrific.

Jack:   31:20
So that's your choice. Hybrid. Genetically modified, horrifically killed, it is normal. It is no lie. Toys or lab grown meat grown from single cells of insects. Turn it of insect cockroach patty.

Neil:   31:34
I will decide when I try both.

Jack:   31:39
Well, you know what? You might get your chance because reports from 80 Kerney suggest what that prediction is that by 2040 cultured meat lab grown meat will make up 35% of the meat market in America, 25% will be plant based meat alternatives. The impossible. Burger beyond meet on 40% will still be standard meet so we could see this Getting really big on DH. Hopefully really delicious in a few ticks. I think that's what people forget, right? If you're growing me in a lab, so be easy to tweak and control the conditions on DH. Therefore, you could have, like, super meat. Even better meet the best meat that you've ever had. Just from yeah, Fry. Because that was supposed to be a bite sized summary off fake meat, but I think not take me alternative meat, But I've massively ran over all of our time.

Neil:   32:42
Yeah, you have. Indeed. So we're gonna wrap up today's episode with his many good news storeys as we can get through, but we won't be able to discuss everything in detail. But it was fine because that was a really great discussion. I think we learned a lot.

Jack:   32:54
It was a gourmet discussion. Okay. East of an episode,

Neil:   32:58
at least I don't have to panic about my time here because you're just going to fade out the music fade out

Jack:   33:03
with music. Is it coming? Start fading.

Neil:   33:05
But but yet so I hope you enjoyed today's episode on DH. Don't forget to rate review and subscribe and come and tell us your thoughts on meat alternatives. A good good thing on any social media channel apart from Pinterest. Still don't have a interest, right, Jackie? Ready? Yes, please. Such a shame. There's some really good ones this week, but let's go. A waitress employee is signed on the spot by music Exactly created boy Band Blue when he spotted arriving to her shift with a guitar in the back and ask her to sing a song. California based company creates the first plant based protein milk product relevant. Today, NASA reveals that the Earth is actually becoming greener. US. Teen US teens push a broken down car Seven kilometres to help a stranger the neck Dorian Tribe wins a legal battle over the Amazon. The first wave on I