a good good thing

Hugging for pride: a mom's journey to acceptance

June 24, 2019 Neil Thornton + Jack Ratcliffe Season 1 Episode 7
a good good thing
Hugging for pride: a mom's journey to acceptance
Show Notes Transcript

HAPPY PRIDE MONTH! We’re celebrating the rainbow with a Pride special and we couldn’t be more excited. Why? Because we are joined by a very, very special guest. Sara Cunningham is the founder of Free Mom Hugs, and incredible nonprofit organisation she started after a deeply personal journey of acceptance she experienced when her son, Parker, came out as gay. 

From the church to the pride parade, Sara talks us though the tumultuous time she had and how she went from a place of prejudice to being the fiercest momma bear advocate for LGBTQ+ young people. She recounts the stories of other parents as well as young people she has met along the way. She also shares her top tips for what makes a good hug. It’s one not to be missed. 

In our quick-fire news round, it’s a pride fest as Neil runs down as many good good things happening to the LGBTQ+ community right now. Which one will Jack pick? Listen and find out!

Keep up to date with us over on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter(@agoodgoodthing) and don't forget to rate, review and then subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. 

About your hosts


A computational artist currently undertaking a PhD in virtual reality, Jack is motivated by the positive impact technology can have on our day to day lives both operationally and emotionally. Outside of PhDs and podcasting, Jack is a proud dad to three turtles and an ever-growing number of house plants.  Find Jack at @jacktionman on Instagram and Twitter


A digital content editor by day, Neil is also a men’s lifestyle blogger at whatneildid.com where he covers a range of topics from travel and style to health and mental well-being. You’ll never find him too far from a coffee.   Find Neil at @Whatneildid  on Instagram and Twitter 

Neil:   0:09
Hi, everyone, and welcome to a good good thing. I hope you have a great week full of good things. And if you're not well, you're in luck. Because from here on in, this is a good vibes. Only space.  

Neil:   0:17
I'm Jack.

Neil:   0:29
Hi, everyone. Welcome to this week's episode where your hosts, I'm Neil. I'm Jack on today. We have got a great episode for you. Is that right, Jack?  

Jack:   0:37
Yes. In fact, it's ironic because normally at the starving episode, we talked about what good things for the week work. But for you, your good thing is definitely this episode.  

Neil:   0:45
My entire thing is this episode. Today's episode is a pride themed episode because we are in Pride Month and, which is, ironically, like a week before London's pride. You know that because London Prize not until July my Jesse's like August this nicely just keeps going. Yeah, you know, like every game every day's a gay day and yet, So we have a pride field episode for you today with an incredible interview with a woman from America who is pretty much now my superhero. Her name is Sarah Cunningham and Sarah started an organisation called Free Hugs in America on this organisation is also she was a religious conservative woman whose son came out as gay, and she then had to spend time trying to come to terms with that and realising that it was, you know, okay to have an LGBT son.  

Jack:   1:44
And also not only did she come to terms with that, she went further. To create an organisation supporting LGBT people by giving out hugs to people or attending weddings in place of the parents who may not be comfortable going to the Children's ceremonies and therefore kind of providing a surrogate mom service to the entire LGBT community.  

Neil:   2:08
Yeah, and they also provide a whole host of the resources online to help parents who are who have Children. They're coming out to come to terms with that on DH. So, yeah, I think let's not give anything more away. And let's get straight into this week's episode.Enjoy.  

Sarah Cunningham:   2:31
My name is Sarah Cunningham. I live in Oklahoma City. Born and raised here. I met my husband Young. We have two Children together, one gay, one straight, and our youngest son is gay. Hey, spent his whole life coming out to us. But when he turned 21 Hey said Mom, I met someone, and I really need you to be okay about it. And that's, Ah, conversation that I tried to manipulate. I thought it was a phase. Throughout his life, we raised our Children a very conservative evangelical church, and we both spent a lot of time praying that gay away. So when he when he took the stand as a gay man, I had to face the reality that, you know, my son is gay and he faced his biggest fear, which was me at that time. I didn't take the news very well. I acted and said and did some things that I regret. And it was a journey that took us from the church to the Pride Parade. And, um, I felt like that I had to choose between my child and my faith because I had absorbed this idea that homosexuality and suicide, for example, where the ultimate offence is unforgivable. Ah, acts, you know by God.

Neil:   3:49
So where did you even start to begin to reconcile your beliefs with the fact the sun had come out as gay to go from being so prejudice to founding a pro LGBT organisation is a pretty big transformation. Can you tell us more about that journey for you?

Sarah Cunningham:   4:01
Yes. I thought it was the only woman in the world wrestling between my faith and accepting my sons, you know, sexual identity. And so I started writing about it and I wrote a book. It's titled How We Sleep At Night, A Mother's Memoir and about the same time that the book came out. I found a private online Facebook group from moms with Children on the LGBTQ plus spectrum, and at that time there were 250 moms and we all had the same storey. Ah, feeling alone, feeling like we didn't know where to look for. Resource is, we were alienated from our churches, from our homes for many parts of society as we were trying to navigate to our acceptance and celebrating our Children. Now there's over 5000 moms again. We all have the same storey, but we have resource is faith based. Resource is we find out that we're not alone. We get educated on the history of human sexuality evidence, science testimonies from LGBT keep us Christians and we realise, Um, I don't think I'm speaking for myself, but I have to say, in my opinion, I believe it's an evangelical conservative woman of faith that I had been duped, duped to believe that my son chose this life. Um, I don't believe that it's choice. I don't believe it's a sin. And but it took Cem Cem research. It took reexamining everything that I believe. I do believe that we have been duped as evangelical, mainstream conservative. Um, I'm a woman of faith. I experienced God too much greater degree that I ever thought possible. On this side of the Storey. I experience humanity. Um, for example, I can go to a drag show and I cry hot tears at this beautiful expression of human sexuality. Whereas before it, you know, I might have considered it to be perverted or offensive. But now I appreciate it. And just celebrate is a beautiful part of a dynamic of human sexuality that has just been, um, oppressed for so long. And when, when it's allowed to just be celebrated and acknowledged for a beautiful, um, expression.

Neil:   6:24
So that celebration and acknowledgment do you think you've seen the effects of them on your son

Sarah Cunningham:   6:29
of you know, he's suffered with anxiety, depression, just having a really difficult time in school with relationships and to see him live authentically and vibrant and have a healthy life and just happy and healthy. It just allowed me to see past my own fear and my own ignorance.

Neil:   6:51
And from that, when did you think you're going to get involved? Andi, you were going to try and make a difference so that you could share this joy that you felt this revelation you experienced with other people so that other people could understand.

Sarah Cunningham:   7:02
In 2014 my husband and I stood with our son at the Oklahoma City Pride parade, and it was my first interaction with a beautiful spirit build community. And I just fell in love and I started hearing their storeys and seeing how they'd been treated by the church by many aspects of society. And in Oklahoma, Ah, conversion therapy is still legal, sought out and paid for. You can be fired and discriminated against for being gay or being it even an ally. Um, it's getting better, but we have a lot of work to do. Um, so in 2014. My husband, I stood at the Pride Parade, and then in 2015 I made a homemade button that read Free Mom Hugs and I'm not the first mom toe offer free Mom hugs at a Pride parade. But based on that experience, I started the nonprofit free Mom Hugs. And here's why. Standing there that afternoon with anyone that made eye contact with me, I would offer them a free mom hug or high five because not everybody's a hugger. And I just went home covered from head to toe with glitter that day. But I also went home with real horror storeys ringing in my ear, and I couldn't I couldn't get away from that from hearing storeys about the young woman who hadn't been hugged in four years by your mom because she was gay, from the young couple living in the car because they've been kicked, kicked out of their homes for being gay, just the constant that those who have survived conversion therapy or I like to call it Shame based Ministries. Um, and I just couldn't get away from that. So some friends and dads and moms and allies on members of the community. We started taking up collections, donations, $5 here, $20 there, and we buy a bus pass. We buy a gift card for basic needs. We would help someone get the prescription filled with their eyeglasses repaired. Just anything to be, ah, loving presence in the lives of those who've been alienated from their families. And it's been very successful. Um, we are grassroots nonprofit, and I'm probably talking way too fast your question. But I hope that

Neil:   9:24
nice is great. Thank you so much. We've got We've got plenty of follow ups as well, so But we're loving listening to you.  

Jack:   9:30
So what else does free mom hugs do?

Sarah Cunningham:   9:32
we also educate? We travel. We speak of churches, colleges, major corporations, just anything that will bring about awareness of what's been happening, what's happening and what needs to happen. And just We travel on tour with a free mom hugs banner across the country. I have beautiful friends from the community who are I take with me and I, you know we share. There are storeys in with civic faith and business leaders that libraries or donut shops anything just to try to raise awareness. And the beautiful thing about free mom hugs is that it allows a platform for mom's dad's friends and allies to show up in a practical way. And the profound thing is, is that once you give yourself by offering that hug or high five and make that connexion and here just a little bit of a storey from someone's life so tender of how they've been celebrated or alienated, it changes. You storeys change people.

Neil:   10:39
Yeah, I think that's really true. And, you know, it's really important that we all spend time listening to other people's storeys. And I mean, you must have heard loads like Do you have any that have particularly stuck with you over the time?

Sarah Cunningham:   10:50
Yes. The first storey is about older woman. I went to church with her name is Mary. We served in the same church for 20 years. She was older on older woman. When we joined her family had grown and gone S o. I just knew her. I didn't really know much about her family, but she knew my family because we joined the church when our kids were young. So we served together for 20 years and she always took interest in my family and especially Parker. I didn't realise it at the time, but after he came out and we continued our relationship, Um, and I started writing the book and just sharing little bits with her. She she wanted a copy of the book, and so when it was published and I had a printed copy, I took it to her and I met her on her front porch and I handed her the book and she started crying. And I said, Mary, what's the matter with you? And she goes, Well, I'm just so glad that you worked this out, that your family's okay and, um and she just really got up, you know, continued to cry and be emotionally just distraught to a degree, and it was a little shocking to me. I said, Mary, we're okay. Everything's fine here. And she goes, No, Sarah, you don't understand. I have a gay son and I said, Mary, why didn't you tell me? We could have blessed each other and walked through this together and she said, No, you don't understand. We don't celebrate holidays. I don't acknowledge his partner of 30 years. We don't talk about it and I said, Mary, it's all right to accept your son And she said, You don't understand. You're the second person I've told and she was in her seventies. And that's when I realised we have got to have this conversation

Neil:   12:32
that's such a great example of the impact this division this manufactured division is having on people from both sides of the Storey. I mean, that's Mary missing out on an entire lifetime with her child, based on beliefs that she was brought up on, that she didn't choose. And I mean, for her son, it's well, you know, what do you think that free mum hugs means to people that are cut off from their parents?

Sarah Cunningham:   13:00
What I think free Mom hugs means to them is just total acceptance, Um, to see the healing that comes not only to the community as we celebrate them and help educate the world around them and and make our world a safer, kinder, more loving place. And to be a loving presence in the life we hear from people all over the world. And it gives hope it gives healing. I've seen members of the community so wounded and so, so broken. And to see the healing from being loved and accepted and honoured and to see them built up, Um, it's it's just something that I would never I hope someday we won't need Fremont bugs, actually, but it's a wonderful thing. Do you hear from parents that, you know, say, you know, because of free mom hugs? You know, I called my daughter and I apologised or we were restoring our relationship. Um, the good far outweighs the negative, but the negatives are the The devastation is what I believe. It is at the forefront of our minds and what drives us and just empowers us to continue the work. And it's been a joy. But it's also been something that's driven me, is that I'm accountable to it. And until I stop hearing horror storeys from the community or their parents than I'll keep going, I

Neil:   14:46
I mean so actually, on that, that topic of parents kind of What? What advice do you most get asked for by parents and kind of What is your go to advice for parents that have a kid, a LGBT child that's come

Sarah Cunningham:   14:59
out well, I think the first thing that we need to dio on both sides is to listen toe, listen to their storeys and to validate if you're no matter which side of the fence you're on to validate their geogrpahics, what they've absorbed in their upbringing, and then we can educate. And again, there's so many resource is out there now that's it's easy to find information. Um, so for parents to to make your home a safe place, your child shouldn't have to cheque themselves at the door. Ah, find the resource is they're out there and to surround yourself with people who will only your family celebrate your Children. And if you don't have those people in your life to find them and the same goes for the community, learn about the history of your human sexuality. Um, get educated on your community, and that will bring about peace and prepare you with an answer, even if it's just to yourself.

Neil:   16:02
Yeah, definitely.  

Jack:   16:03
I think so. On that, not on bringing peace. There's all of LGBT plus people who ah, geographically may be too far away to get a get a mom hug. You do verbal hugs, and if so, what do you think you would say to them if they were listening? 

Sarah Cunningham:   18:12
I would say that you are loved. You are worthy. You are created to be exactly who you are on DH to keep yourself safe and surround yourself with people who will love you and celebrate you. And if you don't have those people in your life, you find them. And, um, and that that God loves you and created you just the way that you are and that I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Um, that it took me so long to get here and that Thank you for surviving and surviving is the best thing that you could do.

Neil:   18:12
I was like, I'm going to cry. It is like it's amazing because I think even is, even if someone who didn't necessarily struggle coming out those air still words that I haven't heard from anyone in my family, I know that they, like, are fine with it or on the surface. But I think that's that's still a depth that they've not even approached it to. To them. I want to say that I think actually, with all of when some of the recent attacks happened in London, I went on a bit of a social media rant because it just I was so tired of it. And actually, it was the first time I've done that kind of thing before. But it was the first time that one of my sisters actually reached our own, said I can't fathom these news articles. I can't imagine what you're feeling. I'm here. Call me, Would you need from me? And it was, you know, and even that I was like, Wow, you know, I've been out for well a decade now, over a decade, and yeah, that's the first time that they've actively put themselves on that level in kind of understandings. I think to hear that from you, if I think, is incredibly moving so, I thank you.

Sarah Cunningham:   18:13
You know, I think it it's important that you have conversations and even sometimes if you have to start it by singing, it hurts me. When you don't acknowledge me, if they feel safe in doing this of what to say to, you know, to verbally express, you know, do you acknowledge who I am? You know, And just two, I don't know. I'm kind of chewing on this idea because as parents who've been hurt by extended families like there are many families who have been hurt by either immediate family or extended family members who say, Well, you know, you're welcome in my home, But don't don't bring you're transgender Um, you know, son, he's not welcome here. Things like that. And it's, you know, these these moms air trying to navigate, saying, Do I let them know that because my child's not welcome, I'm not coming either. And then it's on them, like if you're not gonna welcome my child, then I'm not coming either kind of thing. So it's like verbally saying You hurt me the burdens on you now because I'm not carrying it anymore.

Neil:   19:18
I fully agree with that. And I think that was actually very much part of my own coming out process in that the burden was on them. No me to feel bad about myself, which I definitely think helped me. Andi, you touched on the idea of the surrogate mum, and it reminded me of because a lot of this started as well in terms of obviously the name of free mum hugs coming out, and it was your Facebook status wasn't it off offering to go to weddings as a stand in mum on? Did that ever happen? Has that happened?  

Sarah Cunningham:   19:45
Through my advocacy? I started hearing from couples who had asked me to officiate their wedding. So I got ordained and I started officiating weddings, and that's something I had to search myself onto. You know, it just I take it very seriously. I consider same gender marriage as a holy. And so I started officiating weddings and doing so. Hearing from the community, Parents who weren't acknowledging the relationship were refusing to come to the weddings. So out of frustration late at night, I went on a rant and I said, Look, if your biological mom won't come to your same sex wedding when you call me, I'll be there. I'll even bring the bubbles. Well, what went viral is that you have people all around the world saying, Call me, I'll be there too, you know, all around the world. And it was wonderful. I mean, that really scared me. I think that gave a platform to for people to say I'm an ally. I'm there or I'm a foaming there.

Neil:   20:45
It gives me goose bumps just listening to it and thinking about it. And I will. I would definitely save you, see if and when I get married.

Sarah Cunningham:   20:53
Oh, I will be there. And but the thing is, if I can't be there, I might be the face of it. But again, I'm not the first mom to offer free mom hugs. I'm not the first mom to stand in at a wedding. I'm just the 1st 1 I think, to have my hair on fire and put on social, I don't know, but but is the post went viral? Because you have people all over the world you know, saying I'll go to call me. But if I can't make it, we have moms all over the world.

Neil:   21:21
You also have free dad hugs as well, don't you? Was part of it. And is it? I didn't think it was free. Pastor hugs. But Pastor Pastor, we say like so the same food pastor say in an English accent. Priest. Father

Sarah Cunningham:   21:35
Well, welcome the entire family. The beautiful thing about free mom legs is that the entire family eyes welcome. We have dads, moms, aunts, uncles, sisters were working on Ah, free Dad hugs free Grandma hugs free sister hugs things like that. It's an umbrella, if you will. But all are welcome here. And we do have pastors, teachers. Grandma's All are welcome here

Jack:   22:04
speaking so much about hugs. What do you think? Makes a good hug?

Sarah Cunningham:   22:09
I think the secret is asking if they want to hunt. First, you say, Can I offer you a hug or a high five? Because, you know, a lot of people, they're just they're not in the hugs, and we want to respect that. So if I can't get a hug or a high five or an elbow, you know, high five or something, I try to acknowledge something, but I always, you know, say, Well, I love you. I'm so glad you're here. Um, I'm glad we're here together, but I think the secret to a good hug is not letting go until they do. That

Jack:   22:38
makes a lot of sense. Actually, that's I need to improve my hug technique.

Sarah Cunningham:   22:42
I tried to go Hart to Hart. I try to hug heart to heart, not let go until they do. And I always say something affirming. No matter you know who you are. Like I love you. I'm so glad we're here together. I hope you have a good day. Just something lovely. And I think everyone needs a hug. And you're something kind.

Jack:   23:04
So right. I think I would I want a hug now.  

Neil:   23:08
Yeah, Jack and I are hugging in right now in the room as we are talking.

Sarah Cunningham:   23:13
Well I'm sending you a great big cyber hug right now.  

Neil:   23:16
Likewise, Sarah, I cannot thank you enough for your time. And I cannot thank you enough for what you're doing. It is so uplifting and so fantastic on DH. You and your community of mums just mean the world to us. Andi, I wish it was that success with it growing bigger and bigger and reaching more people and so yeah, thank you so much.

Sarah Cunningham:   23:39
Well, you are welcome. It is my honour and my joy to be in this position and I am surrounded with amazing people. Ah, who feel the same way and it really is. I mean, I told Katrina just the other day. We can ban conversion therapy today in Oklahoma. But the rial change the reel change whether it's ever band or not, which I believe it will be. But ah, the real change comes when we start hearing a different message from the pulpit when we see people taking a stand and being vocal, invisible at their workplace in their homes and the good and educated people of the world saying enough is enough and my heart goes to these countries, Um, in fact, I can't dwell on it for too long or I'll be a puddle on the floor. But just my heart is broken for those who you write to her. Can't you won't travel there because it's not safe. You'll be discriminated against. Um, and I just I I just wish that I could go there and hug everybody. I don't know. I wish everyone could go to a Pride Festival and hug and just spend the day with the community and they would leave changed. I know it.  

Jack:   25:06
So that was Sarah Cunningham from free Mum hugs talking about the amazing journey she's been on on the amazing journey she helps people take regarding being an LGBT parent. And also being LGBT person might just want a hug from a mom.  

Neil:   25:23
Yeah, we're so thankful for her time. If you want to learn more about free mum hugs, you confined them on various social media's at free mum hugs. And also you can visit free mum, hugs, don't or where you can find out everything about charity. Get a look at what Sarah and the team look like. and also gets a valuable resources if you are a parent.

Jack:   25:43
Not to mention you can buy her book about her journey from not being comfortable with her son's sexuality to a big advocate on DH. Amazing transformative experience at Oklahoma. Pride.  

Neil:   26:00
It's called How We Sleep at Night, A mother's memoir and you could find that on Amazon right now.  

Jack:   26:07
Yeah, sorry, I love that I was talking about the book but totally forgot to give the title.  

Neil:   26:13
Okay, Jack, it's time for the good, Good thing, quick-fire round. So this is Today's is a themed one. So we're doing quick-fire pride and I've got a list of great LGBTQ plus stories happening around the world for you to pick from. Are you ready?  

Jack:   26:30
I am ready and I've got a timer and I am about to push start so good having this time already this time. Well, it's not our first time to time. Time. Okay, Ready? Go.  

Jack:   26:42
Okay. Taiwan has legalised Same sex marriage. LGBT t Q Pine is Sylvia Rivera Marsha P. Johnson to be honoured with statues. US. Diplomats work around the White House. Gay pride flag Ban Pull Brutal Judge has become the first out gay politician with a serious bid for the presidency. Netflix celebrates Pride Month with a new prison genre campaign. Janet Mock becomes the first trans woman and transmit of colour to sign an overall deal with a major studio. Google launches digital living monument to stonewall Botswana is decriminalised homosexuality in a landmark ruling for LGBT plus right kind of  

Jack:   27:15

Neil:   0:00
Please stop it. You know, I got through all of them when I did a test run on. I really couldn't do it when I was doing out loud.

Jack:   33:29
It's the pressure. I might also point out that you went LGBT Who are there.

Neil:   33:29
That one really threw me. When you're trying to do it quickly.

Jack:   33:29
you've got to get to the acronym. Okay, You know the first thing you get in basic gay training. You okay?

Neil:   33:29
You compete for the others. I'm gonna just name cheque the other options that were there once you've picked, but you can only pick from one of those I Jack, peaceful out your phone. Just turn it off the whole phone. Look, it says all the alarms are off, okay? It's has the words. It's clearly not working. What one do you pick? Jack?

Jack:   33:29
So I kind of lost track. So I need to quickly think which one I'd like would've was keep the flow better, but someone messed up. Yeah, Yeah, Blame it on the status. So I do not care about Google. I'm just gonna put that 1 to 1 side and Savage. But they're just putting that out there for my friends who work in Google. Hi. Um, I'm also not too bothered about Netflix. I'm really going to skip the whole company's doing things. It's great. The company's now do things great. Lots of companies now do different things. It's really also just interrupt. I realised one other massive error. I said, Poor Buddha judge and its people. It's Mayor Pete and I said pull because I typed Paul rather than pay even a pizza in the rest of it. So yeah, people to judge but back to you. Thank you. I'm sure everyone would have been running into complaint letter. I can imagine the tweet gang or fired. L. So I'm curious about how us diplomats worked around the White House flag ban pride, flag ban. Not just any flag. Yeah. Okay, cool. Don't don't. Before we go into that just going to give you a little bit of overview of what we missed. Just that. They're great. Pride related music news storeys Canada, Portugal and Sweden came top in a 2019 list of the best destinations for LGBTQ plus travellers in this year's Spartacus Gay Travel Guide with a camera Portugal and Sweden. Sweden. I have bean to Sweden and Portugal, both very gay friendly. I've been the important together we filled in the hole where you wanna go to Canada on DH another. Otherwise, we have actually related to something Sarah is talking to us about is that they have estimated that around 10,000 LGBT q plus kids have been saved from conversion therapy. Thanks to the states that have banned the practise in the U. S. In a small cyst, I could never say this word isn't gonna resolve Saskatchewan's schedule and that my old house mate in this in a small town, they painted their crosswalks with rainbows, and it brought a tear to a former closeted residents. Eyes heart cry a heart on DH. Then last one, my favourite one gave Flamingo couple of settle down together a Denver zoo. No, that is the best storey. Yeah, you can't have it Didn't get to it. That's how this game works. Guys will provide you the links if you need them. You can tweet us at a good, good thing and we'll send you the links. Have they're not. They're not bisexual. You never know. We have to see if they change. They can identify how they want for as long as they want. All right, America. Bands, flags, Pride flags Yet, So they set out to rule from the White House from Mike Pence and Trump that embassies US embassies were not allowed to fly the pride flag on the flagpole next American flag, which most of them do routinely every it on. So what's been interesting is ones that have either just going against it and raise them. But then, actually, some of the U s embassies have just found creative ways to get around it. Like so, the embassy in Jerusalem basically tweeted a photo celebrating pride and they'd plastered their building into a giant rainbow banners and then individual coloured flags that made the rainbow. So it wasn't on the main mast, but it was everywhere else over the rest of building on in Seoul, they put a giant rainbow like what was the flag? But rather than being on the mast, they attached it to the building behind the American flag Pole s o. The American flag was flying in front of the rainbow. Very regal on DH s. Oh, yeah, it's been really interesting. Eso have taken those down now, but it's because it they had it up for their country, the capital's own queer festival. So it is up there for that. But again, they still went around trump for it. Even the U. S. Embassies in Mongolia have bean attaching pride flags to the kind of gates and walls around the building so that they're not necessarily breaking the rules, eh? So it's been really good fun, too. Watch that And then I think, actually, even on home turf America orbit no US Embassy in the state capital of California. They raised the Pride flag on the main flag flag mast for the first time ever, with governor of California just saying that like you know that they were a state of inclusion and equality on DH would always be there to support the LGBT Q plus community. Ah, which is really great to see. I think it's, you know, we've discussed in this episode. They're just great moments to see people genuinely getting on board with it, and it doesn't feel like it's a moment think of just over the moment. It feels like the fact that they had to go out of their way to subvert the head of state shows that there's actually a really desire to support Pride and Pride Month and the pride celebrations, which I think is pretty awesome. You know what totally unrelated to pride? I've been in the California State Capitol building, have you? What did you do there? I got my picture taken with America really giving something back that way.

Neil:   33:41
So that's it. Pride episode done. That was a good episode. I really enjoyed the episode Sarah is amazing. Yeah. I mean, I just mean, it's not that that's not untrue. Actually, she does speak incredibly well. I could just listen to her talk for a really long time, and we've even got some. We've even got some tips that just for us, because there's so much We didn't have it. We had too much to fill the episode. So we'll try and share some of those out on Social Jack. Where can they find us on social media? They can find us on a good good thing at Instagram Twitter. Do they not interest instead of having interest? We're working on it. Yeah, and Yeah, she was brilliant, and I really enjoyed it. That won't necessarily be all of our pride field news for the month, but we will see what else comes our way. That's true. You need to be going on a date with someone you like that? Is that irrelevant? But yeah, that's that on and. We've also got london pride coming [music fades over]