a good good thing

Virtual reality, real benefits

May 02, 2019 Neil Thornton + Jack Ratcliffe Season 1 Episode 4
a good good thing
Virtual reality, real benefits
Show Notes Transcript

We look at the very real benefits that new VIRTUAL REALITY technology could bring for learning, anxiety therapy, empathy awareness and entertainment, as discussed by scientists (full disclosure: this is what Jack does for a day-job, please forgive his enthusiasm). We also serve up a heart-warming story of a young hot-dog entrepreneur and the city that chose to support him. 

Keep up to date with us over on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter (@agoodgoodthing) and don't forget to rate, review and subscribe so you don't miss the next episode. 

About your hosts

A computational artist currently undertaking a PhD in virtual reality, Jack is motivated by the positive impact technology can have on our day to day lives both operationally and emotionally. Outside of PhDs and podcasting, Jack is a proud dad to three turtles and an ever-growing number of house plants.  Find Jack at @jacktionman on Instagram and Twitter

A digital content editor by day, Neil is also a men’s lifestyle blogger at whatneildid.com where he covers a range of topics from travel and style to health and mental well-being. You’ll never find him too far from a coffee.   Find Neil at @Whatneildid  on Instagram and Twitter 

Neil Thornton:   0:08
Hi, everyone. And welcome to a good thing. Good news, because it celebrates positive storeys by big and small from around the world. I'm Neil.

Jack Ratcliffe:   0:14
And I'm Jack.  

Neil Thornton:   0:16
And from here on, this is a good vibes only space.

Neil Thornton:   0:16
I almost said I'm Jack. Jack. How's your week been?  

Jack Ratcliffe:   0:32
My week has been very, I was going to say exciting, but I realised that other people might listen to this and other people might. Other people will listen to this. Good, good, positive on DH. It's kind of a little bit boring for most people, but for me it's really exciting. So my orchid in my bedroom has bloomed. I just I always look at you like this is the point where you say So what do I say? I will explain because it's important, you understand. And it's important that people were at home, understand that this orchid is the saddest looking, pathetic plant for, like, 12 months of the year. 11 months of the 12 months because that the entire year it's like just this will t green sad looking thing that kind of sits in the corner, my bedroom looking depressed. But every day I feel too guilty to do anything except give it water on DH kind of orchid feed. And so every day I'm like Here you go, orchid. Hope you're doing better today. It's disappointing until that special moment when you wake up and you go. Is that a bud? Will I see flowers on my dreary, depressing orchid? And so a week ago I saw that's first buds, and a couple of days ago it bloomed. Blossomed. The flowers came out of the buds for the first time in, I think, like 18 months on DH. That was like, pretty. I'm not sure it's pretty cool. I'm not sure it's pretty interesting, but it made the moment for you. Well, I mean, like, that's like 365 days of watering.

Neil Thornton:   2:10
So is it one of those plants that isn't necessarily guaranteed to every flower like like where there's that isn't bamboo type? Because I think they call it a bamboo plant, but it's no, but it's just it's It's only a lucky thing if it happens.

Jack Ratcliffe:   2:23
So what happens is people like sell you orchids. This isn't even my orchid. I inherited it. Someone was like here, have an orchid, and it had flowers on our great look flowers on a plant. And then the flowers were dropped off, and I was like, Well, I guess we'll see how this goes on. Then you keep it for a year, and you like, are there gonna be more flowers? Um, you keep doing the same watering action, like Okay, maybe there'll be more flowers. It's like Sisyphus just constantly was his office. The one that pushed the boat out was his first. The one who had his liver pecked out.

Neil Thornton:   2:52
I'm just gonna shrug, because I don't know.

Jack Ratcliffe:   2:56
Okay. In Greek mythology, Sisyphus either kept pushing a boulder up a hill and it fell back down. Or he kept having his liver, even out blackbirds. I mean, maybe he had both Maybe it's just me. It was two guys named Sisyphus.

Neil Thornton:   3:08
I think either way, you're a better man than I am. Because if I had a problem that wasn't lowering, it would just go in the trash because I'd be like, Why am I bothering? I'm getting nothing back. That is a one sided relationship, Jack. I mean, that's practically abusive.

Jack Ratcliffe:   3:21
No, it's about nurturing and caring and believing in something

Neil Thornton:   3:25
just by one. That pre floured? Yeah.

Jack Ratcliffe:   3:27
You know, actually, even the flowers. Nicest. There's only, like, three flowers on it and you can see orchids. Now. They've got, like, 14 flowers. And I'm not spending here. No, during this, I got three flowers. Um, no, I'm ungrateful. You know, I'm really glad that is butted. Thank you. If you're listening, Orchid,

Neil Thornton:   3:43
I'm really happy for you, Jack. That sounds like it's been a real positive moment in your week.

Jack Ratcliffe:   3:48
I'm not sure you're actually happy for him. No comment. How was your week, Neil? I bet it wasn't as blooming Awesome.

Neil Thornton:   4:00
Jesus, My week was good. Actually, I have a really My Storey this week is actually really random. But it's a good one in that I, like a lot of people, use dating acts also like a lot of people, not a fan of them. Find them relatively problematic. But actually thiss a few weeks ago, I a friend told me about that Bumble I know about you, but I've never used it on and on it. We've been having a conversation about how you know, I was like, actually what I need to do is expand friendship circles and then hope to meet friends of friends because I felt like that since being more like a better way of meeting, potentially meeting people for dating

Jack Ratcliffe:   4:45
Yeah, like 50% off relationships stem from being introduced to people through friends?

Neil Thornton:   4:51
Exactly, exactly. So it turns out that on Bumble they have three different parts of the actors bumble dating on DH. Then there's bumble business, which is that networking.

Jack Ratcliffe:   5:00
Is there Bumble bee where you get to go out on dates with bees?

Neil Thornton:   5:03
No, there it is, a community group, A boot beekeeper.

Jack Ratcliffe:   5:06
You know, that should be a thing because the numbers are down on DH. It's important that we get together and were

Neil Thornton:   5:11
very true. You should start that. But then there's also Bumble B F F, which is a It's supposed to be for people to meet like new friends with similar interests. So I had a damage. It had a look at. What we find is you start off in your like, kind of swiping left cause you don't find me attractive in your life. You have to reset your mind because I'll wait. This isn't like what that's about. We're trying to find a partner on Basically, profile came up. It was going to go and, like the bio, explained that they were friends. Andi was just a great bikes. It said that they lost their other best friend to marriage because they moved out of the city. Andre were trying to like rebuild. Their trio was really fun, eh? So we ended up matching ends up chatting. Andi Then I think it was maybe like a week or so later we've been for our wait up for brunch in London. Andi actually just went really well and they're really good fun. And then since then we also went out again last week for our first night out and got relatively messy. But it was actually a lot of fun, and I was just kind of really surprised that it worked out so well because I think obviously, with all the horror storeys you get from abs and dating APS tow, actually it to have been so simple and so quick and so successful was actually really brilliant. So yeah, like that was my That was my good thing of the week.

Jack Ratcliffe:   6:43
It's nice. It's nice. You've been out and you found a new best friend forever.

Neil Thornton:   6:47
I did caveat with them that I already had a best friend and his name was Jack, and he was irreplaceable.

Jack Ratcliffe:   6:54
If this is how you're breaking up our friendship, like via medium off podcast, I don't think that's an acceptable method of doing it.

Neil Thornton:   7:02
It's just important for people to have planned these like Plan B, not Plan B. I take that back,

Jack Ratcliffe:   7:08
man. I hope they're not listening. You know,

Neil Thornton:   7:10
right now, you guys. Yeah. So I thought I'd recommend anyone that's looking toe meet new friends give Bumble Bee ff ago because apparently it's pretty effective.

Jack Ratcliffe:   7:21
Do you have any tips for identifying the best B F F person on Bumble B F F?

Neil Thornton:   7:26
I know, because I think she went out for profiles. Match for these guys that I haven't been back on it. Don't be picky. Eyes done yet. Don't be picky. Go for humour. Um, and remember that you're no swiping left or right because of how attractive Because you want to date them? Um,

Jack Ratcliffe:   7:45
yeah. No, it's great. Good, good. All

Neil Thornton:   8:02
right, Jack, you've got a good

Jack Ratcliffe:   8:03
thing for

Neil Thornton:   8:03
this week. What have you got for us?

Jack Ratcliffe:   8:05
so I wanted to talk about the wonderful world of virtual realities, I guess the wonderful worlds off virtual realities. I guess each one has its own. So

Neil Thornton:   8:16
many as you like,

Jack Ratcliffe:   8:17
unlimited, just limited by the processing power and the cost of the super expensive headsets.

Neil Thornton:   8:22
Yes, what is it about virtual reality?

Jack Ratcliffe:   8:24
So I wanted to give everyone a run down on the state of virtual reality because I think most people are aware virtual reality exists. People like, Oh, look, there's someone with some cardboard attach their phone. I think people know that something is happening with virtual reality. But as a virtual reality researcher, that's how I spend my time. When I'm not making podcasts, it's, I get, like a body keen insight into what is happening, what's being used for where it's successful, where it's getting difficulties on DH. There are so many good societal and personal benefits that can come with virtual reality. So I thought maybe this would be a good place for me to just discuss them. Everyone know, let you know. So

Neil Thornton:   9:01
is this where you going to start encouraging us to walk around with these giant headsets on a hike on our heads because I have seen someone doing this on the tube, and it was the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen. And I don't feel like it's something we should encourage.

Jack Ratcliffe:   9:14
So I don't think virtual reality and walking is a good thing. I actually think on the two it's probably a great idea. I mean, tube to gross, horrible places and you want to be anywhere else. So you put in the virtual world and escape to it, then much better is

Neil Thornton:   9:29
literally taking it as far as you can to not have to make eye contact. Will speak

Jack Ratcliffe:   9:33
to strangers. Okay, firstly, no one speaks. The strangers on the tube anyway in the first place, have occasional creepy wink or smile. You know, I need to go on a fight on the tube a couple of months back by this guy who I was waiting for, the tube doors to open, and they opened and I went to step on. Any kind of ran from behind me on the tube and pushed into the space in front of me on DH. I kind of just looked at him, and I was like, Shrug my shoulders and he looked back, was that Oh, I was just getting onto the gap. I mean, obviously you're just getting onto the gap. You getting into the gap, which is my gap. Like it's my you know, is my space.

Neil Thornton:   10:06
Well, Aiken, one up, you and I'm going to try and figure out how to say this without being too graphic, but last where there are times I was on the tube leaving going from work into town a man in front of me on the sea in front of me wass self gratifying while looking at me. And it was probably the most horrific experience of my life.

Jack Ratcliffe:   10:27
That's I mean, my storey kept going. So now I feel it has less of a good climax than yours. I wasn't I wasn't playing for

Neil Thornton:   10:38
anyway anyway. Back to virtual reality.

Jack Ratcliffe:   10:41
Yes. So the benefits are You don't have to. If you had a virtual reality headset on the tube, you wouldn't have to see someone self gratifying in front of you. And also, they wouldn't have been watching someone

Neil Thornton:   10:50
pretty and do it

Jack Ratcliffe:   10:51
in my head. Said, Yeah, they could do the same. Everyone wins. So

Neil Thornton:   10:58
what you say that wasn't pretty, either. When he was looking at May, he was fine. He was getting top dollar. Anyway,

Jack Ratcliffe:   11:05
I don't have to be nice because God loves playing with himself in the juke. You've got another Pff so that so did Bumble Bee

Neil Thornton:   11:15
hanging. Hanging onto what? One for the last 20 minutes?

Jack Ratcliffe:   11:17
Virtual reality has very interesting, positive things for society, and I would like if you ask me about them so I could now talk about them. Please

Neil Thornton:   11:25
tell us what is a good good thing about that reality.

Jack Ratcliffe:   11:28
So thank you for asking. There are lots of really interesting research applications for, but really so I think everyone knows that, like for the last 10 15 years, aircraft pilots have been using that have been training in virtual reality to be able to become better pilots, and that's kind of spreading out to all kinds of learning and training. So surgeons, for example, now get a lot more practise in a realistic setting for when they're doing all kinds of procedures. Then they used to. Then people are getting toward science lessons about abstract concepts. So, for example, gravity, lots of young teenagers have a problem understanding the concept of gravity and how it has an impact on a special level with different planetary bodies and how everything is linked by this invisible force on DH. They found that if you can build like a gravity application where people can sit inside it and move in the space on view, the galaxy around them s so the system around them, they can understand the concept of the impact of gravity far better than if you just give them a book and try and explain. Oh, gravity works like this. Um, so we've got aircraft benefits, surgery benefits. We've got abstract concept benefits. Nurses are going in virtual reality now, too practised, like looking after patients and practise being empathetic and displaying empathy to their patients. So we've got kind of thes emotional factors. My research is in foreign language learning. So the idea that you can build a virtual space on DH have people talking foreign languages in it, and then you go in and interact with them, and it's like, Oh, in, say, a coffee shop in Japan. And you can practise realistically the kind of things that you would say in those environments,

Neil Thornton:   13:15
because because it becomes more immersive. So, like people that are learning foreign languages tend to say that they progressed the most when they visited those places where the language is spoken natively on their immersed by it. And it makes you think in that way more.

Jack Ratcliffe:   13:30
That is the theory, which I still have another two years to prove. But essentially, that's what we're working on. Unlike all the other things I've stated which have lots of evidence for working and being beneficial, this one is Mohr spurious. I'm hoping that in a few years time are we have to come back on here and go. Oh, yeah, that worked really well. Actually, it's fine

Neil Thornton:   13:49
now. I'm really, really famous and a doctor

Jack Ratcliffe:   13:51
on DH. I've got my own language learning virtual reality technology which no one uses because no one has the headsets.

Neil Thornton:   13:56
Well, as someone that has tried and tried and failed probably three or four times in the last couple of years to pick up a new language, anything new would help.

Jack Ratcliffe:   14:07
There you go. You could learn it on the tube. Exactly. God eso along with that, there's other really cool applications like, you know, exposure therapy like psychiatrists use it to make people kind of conquer their fears. So,

Neil Thornton:   14:21
basically like putting, you know, really spiders, spiders.

Jack Ratcliffe:   14:23
That is exactly what one of the virtual reality experiments is that puts you in a room with, like, virtual spiders, like at a distance, and you can slowly approach them and you can approach him in a really safe space because you're in control off the experience. You can get out of it at any time by just taking the headset off you, Khun like you know that it's not real Spider. You're kind of getting accustomed to it. So virtual virtual reality exposure therapy is, ah, growing field and seemed to have lots of positive aspects on positive results on one of the really interesting ones is studying Goldsmiths University, where they used virtual reality exposure therapy to see if socially anxious men would feel more comfortable being able to speak to attractive women if they had gone through this virtual reality exposure therapy process. Um, on what they found because they were also monitoring like their vital signs, they're like how much sweat they were producing on their skin like on Ally to take the test see how comfortable they were on. What they found was that if you take the men, you are confident. And if you take men who are unconfident and you put them in this virtual reality situation or they have to interact with his attractive virtual woman, both feel equally both physically respond on a similar level of nervousness. It's just the confident men are able tto kind of. They have the skills and tools and interaction facilities to be able to get through that interaction and feel okay about it. Whereas thie socially awkward men kind of spiral down into feeling worse and worse as they kind of realised that from this study. And then they also realise that afterwards, after exposing people to this situation, everyone felt less anxious if they would do again in real life. So positive results again as well as other results. I

Neil Thornton:   16:09
think is really interesting because most people, when they think about reality, just think of their games, consoles on that kind of applications, I think is really interesting to see how many quite basic level human experiences that people find difficult. This can actually help fix. But I think I suppose, what's interesting for me. Or what I'd like to understand, though, is the virtual reality is expensive. So is this things where it's a very small few that are engaging with it at the moment because off the cost of the experience and is it something that we expect to make it more accessible down the line that more people can get involved with

Jack Ratcliffe:   16:49
us? So the expectation, especially from Facebook, who owned Oculus, who are one of the biggest virtual reality company, is one of the big Two? Um, the expect expectation is prices will drop. They're about to release like a standalone headset that doesn't require computer comes with a headset and some controllers, and I think it's going to cost about $400.300 pounds on DH. You'll be able to download APS like you were on the phone and just used them in the headset. So that's their hope that by bringing it down to the cost ofthe like a Nintendo switch like a handheld computer game for people who don't own into swept Nintendo, switch is like the modern day GameBoy costs about £300 to buy one. Is

Neil Thornton:   17:26
it £300 I didn't realise it was that much.

Jack Ratcliffe:   17:28
Yeah, like I think that comes with one game usually starts around 283 100

Neil Thornton:   17:33
pounds, pricey for a GameBoy.

Jack Ratcliffe:   17:36
Yeah, it's a good game point, but so that's where these kind of virtual reality standalone headsets coming and going Toby Price that you can get really cheap rubbish ones like the Google cardboard, that £5 box that you essentially put your phone into. But yeah, they're really bad. I mean, like, that is, when you do it, you're like, Oh, this is interesting but you have to hold it to your face. It's awkward. You can't move your hands to control anything like you can barely even push buttons inside it

Neil Thornton:   18:03
I do. You have another one like a proper plastic padded one that I was given by someone. What, you still put your phone in it like the cardboard one. But I started having used A LL variants like it's a totally different experience where the screen is in the headset and it's no a iPhone.

Jack Ratcliffe:   18:22
That's that's It's kind of like if you look a imagine, TV's right. You wanna watch a movie? You wanna watch the new Avengers film. Do you want to watch you unlike a handheld TV? You know those things were like the nineties we had like or do you want to watch it in the cinema on, like the difference between those two experiences affects the way you engage with the content. And that's what we're finding in virtual reality as well is that people in Google cardboard who unable to move their hands around and have their hands move in virtual reality because they're doing it In the real world? People who aren't able tto interact with the world. They've only got one button instead of able to like, pick things up and move them. People whose field of view is cut down so humans have a field of view about 210 degrees. In virtual reality, we can kind of simulated about 140 degrees. That's how much you can see all the way to left all the way to the right. When you're looking straight forwards on DH on some of these, like really cheap headsets that cuts down to like 90 degrees, you're living even more space resolution. The fact that you can see like pixels on if used like a cheaper phone in one of those Google cardboard, you can see individual dots on the screen compared with the more expensive headsets where you can't see any doubts at all, so it feels more realistic down to the high quality of graphics. All of these things we've learnt affect virtual reality effects on my research is trying to understand how much each of these factors affect virtual reality and the learning you get in virtual reality and the feeling of being present in a different world in virtual reality. So the cheap headsets right now the £5 Google cardboard, £20 plastic things totally rubbish if you've experienced virtual reality in No one conceived. But I'm doing air quotes when I say that kind of virtual reality. If you've experienced that, it's really rubbish. Don't even think about it. Just kind of put it to one side. Wait until you can really try one of these Mohr expensive and interesting headsets cause like top quality, I think the most expensive setup you combines the consumer, it's called Ah Picks Max, which has a huge field of view for K resolution screens cost like £1000 just for headset. Then you need like a £1500 computer to run it. So talking £2500 you gotta buy controllers £2700 in total just to use like the highest quality consumer gear. I'm not saying anyone to buy that, but the difference. You can imagine the kind of difference in experience between £5.2700 pounds.

Neil Thornton:   20:47
It's going really interesting to see how they start embedding Morva actuality into, like, um, social experiences as well in their eventing, because we went to an insane virtual reality. What you call it, like set up or immersive experience, experience perfect where, you know, they had taken over this whole entire warehouse that had loads of different rooms on DH. You wore headsets for about 70% of it, but the the headsets were kind of the map to the place that you were in. So he went to one room and you, like, climbed onto a chair and put the headset on, and the chair obviously moved and it made you feel like you're flying with what you were seeing. And then in another room you have to have. Like, the computer was on your back on DH. The whole room have been mapped to the back to reality. So in the head. So it looks like you're on this. You were in the world of Avatar. Actually, you reached out to touch a plan. Your hand actually touch something. Obviously they had I would love to have seen what the actual room looked like, but because it was just like a little cardboard box or something. But you could literally touch it. And then you were trying to walk past. There's a rope bridge going over a canyon and then obviously built a road bridge in this room. But for you, it was like you were trying to jump across like a broken slatted bridge. And it was the most mind boggling thing. And then you had to jump off the cliff through to the next world on DH. Your body couldn't tell the difference. Like when I was getting ready to jump. My body was like, What are you doing? You're going to die. And it was such an amazing fight between two different sides. Your brain over what you were about to do?

Jack Ratcliffe:   22:28
Yeah, it's really believable kind of the state that the state that virtual reality can be and the effect that it has on your body. Like you see people on roller coaster like simulated roller coasters on virtual reality, like completely reacting like they'd be on a roller coaster. In fact, I saw a really bad one recently where they had this Ah, World War two Parrot trooper. And they were kind of like they'd recreated the feeling of being on a plane about to jump out on DH. He was like, Wow, this is great. And they were like, It's really nice We can do this for you because you're not ableto like, actually jump anymore on. So he was Ah, this is amazing. And then he actually jumped on DH. The way you jump, the way he jumped is young, jump like downward. You jump forwards. So he I'm no laughing. This is terrible. He jumped face first forwards with the headset on onto the floor in front of him, and he was fine, like they post up. It's okay to find this funny because he was fine afterwards, but it's like 90 something year old man fully believed it, but no one had told him otherwise. So he was believing that he'd be okay from this virtual setting by even doing like a full forward jump. And in the end, he was OK. But he didn't hit the floor like bang the headset off. It was like, When you're watching it, you're like, Oh, no, but he's fine. He's fine. He's fine, I think. Booth thinking the

Neil Thornton:   23:50
episode notes. That's brilliant on tragic.

Jack Ratcliffe:   23:54
Yeah, so in short, virtual reality one is going to be really great games like I skipped over that, but they're super fun, the super interesting to really believable environment, like the fact that you can feel fear when you're walking over this virtual road bridge on kind of what it's gonna do for situational experiences like there's lots of places now in London that and around the world. But do virtual reality like events. You can go to that super cool, um, and also these important things, which I don't think it talked about enough where the research where virtuality can help us learn it, can help us train. It can help us deal with anxiety can help us get better empathy, like all of these things are gonna be coming from virtual reality. And the next, I don't know, 23 years on the price and cost of getting involved in it and getting that home is going to drop massively. So it's super exciting. And that's my good, good thing, Jack, I'm nervous. Why you nervous now?

Neil Thornton:   24:58
Because I'm actually getting really anxious about doing this good news, countdown. Because you've mucked it up every time you've done it. And this is my first Go on. Go. Actually, now I'm looking at it. All the words of blurring I'm sweating, and I'm not gonna do this. Where? Well, yeah,

Jack Ratcliffe:   25:12
it's not so easy on the other side of the microphone. It's No,

Neil Thornton:   25:15
I apologise. I should be so many. Okay, so I have 30 seconds, right?

Jack Ratcliffe:   25:21
Yes, on what I'm gonna do is I'm going to set the timer, which I have already prepared, which seems novel for this experience. But I am very set for this. I keep forgetting my phone, really enjoying being over here, watching you panic. Just remember, all you have to do is say everything in a meaningful and erudite fashions that people at home can understand it clearly. Yeah, exactly. Times three one. Now a mystery man is bought

Neil Thornton:   25:47
$540 worth of Girl Scout cookies. So the trooper get cold. Hillary Clinton offers encouragement to 1/3 grader who lost a school election. 70% materials used by I came in 2018 but neither renewable recyclable in Indiana, unused cafeteria food is being turned into take home movies for kids. See, I was given a car. Two young employees. He was working 20 miles a day to get to work. Minneapolis counsellors responded to a complaint about boys. Hot dog. Stand by, helping him get a permit. And a grandmother who has 100 for finally got her bucket list. Wish of being arrested could never been on the wrong side of the law. A man drove 400 miles. Drive a stranger. That is hard. That is really hard.

Jack Ratcliffe:   26:20
Yes, it's not easy, is it?

Neil Thornton:   26:23
Like Oh God! All right. Yeah,

Jack Ratcliffe:   26:27
it's a shame, because now no one will do you feel like guilt that now no one will know where That street high genuinely about. One day

Neil Thornton:   26:35
I was like, What if I get it wrong? What if Jack doesn't want to hear about it, But he didn't know what it was because I didn't say it properly.

Jack Ratcliffe:   26:40
That's well, you know what? Actually, on this side, it's intimidating to listen to so many storeys and

Neil Thornton:   26:45
you take it all in

Jack Ratcliffe:   26:45
which one is going to be the best one.

Neil Thornton:   26:47
I also realise that it's what I probably should have done is edit the titles down side. Because I was actually reading them as they were out. And I'm like these really long taking up a lot of time.

Jack Ratcliffe:   26:55
You feel like you come unprepared to this segment. You gotta make the titles shorter. Okay. You gotta have the timer prepared. It's just two things. I mean, I got

Neil Thornton:   27:06
through, Like, what? Seven and 1/2? Eight. I'm saying a hearty last meal. Right? Kind of wrong. You don't think you really get around eight or nine. That wasn't too bad. First for a first stab?

Jack Ratcliffe:   27:14
Yeah. I mean, it's nice to see the amateurs coming up trying to, like, have take a chance and see where they get.

Neil Thornton:   27:19
Yeah, well, the student will become the master

Jack Ratcliffe:   27:21
soon enough. I would like to hear about hot dog boy, which is what I would have called the title Hot

Neil Thornton:   27:27
dog boy. OK, fine. What did Wait. Actually this is a really, really great storey. Basically, a kid in Minneapolis had set up a hot dog stand as the title suggested to raise money on DH. As is apparently quite common in America. Because you see these storeys all the time. A load of people weren't happy that a child I was trying to earn some money in a novel way on DH. There were loads of complaints and a instead. And actually you know, Tio No, that should be a point off the storey, but that it was a black kid. And these the storeys that we keep hearing off it tends to be white people complaining about, you know, with the storey about the black girl that was at the lemonade stand or they're selling water. Yet

Jack Ratcliffe:   28:19
black people do something white person complains about them is a very popular storey that comes out of America.

Neil Thornton:   28:23
I know on DH what was amazing with this one, which is why I won't put it in the list was that they received all of these different complaints on DH instead of holding the map or lie investigating them the like. The people in the office in agency that deals with those complaints all pull together and donated. And they bought the kid his licence. And so he got a licence. So it was worth, like $90 to be able to run his hot dog stand.

Jack Ratcliffe:   28:51
That's a nice servicemen in his hot dog business

Neil Thornton:   28:54
completely. And I just think it was like a really nice little storey similar to all of those other ones that have unnecessary had great outcomes that, you know, didn't require public opinion to force an answer. It was people. All these complaints were like, Whoa, that's crazy. Let's just get this kid a permit on DH. So yeah, you know, short, Sweet Storey. But I thought it was a really, really cute one of people just doing the right thing. And to all those people that complained jog on.

Jack Ratcliffe:   29:24
I think the rial important question, though, is what kind of hot dogs were being served on the stand?

Neil Thornton:   29:30
I don't know what this is. Information we don't know, but from the pictures, quite their freedom out with different sources and different toppings, So he was. You know, he's quite the entrepreneur and, you know, he was working like 11 a.m. to 3 p.m. On weekends. So, like is taking it seriously. And I think okay should be encouraged, toe, you know. And what's that I'm looking for? They should encourage the entrepreneurial

Jack Ratcliffe:   29:53
spirit. Yes, that's true And sell delicious hotel e. I don't know. I'm a vegetarian. Didn't do vegetarian hunter. What's a vegetarian? Got called Hot plan Dog? I don't mean the meat in a hot dog isn't actually a dog, so it's not like Hot Dog, isn't you? Don't change the dog for, Like Obi Jean Cocteau between you two need to get you to have, like, some sort of mushroom fun guy wouldn't it would be like

Neil Thornton:   30:31
make it look like a frank

Jack Ratcliffe:   30:32
Fatter Yeah, I'd be like vegetarian Hot dog would be the name thing. Having a hot dog today, Linda McCartney Sausage is usually what is used. They don't make vegetarian frank letters as far as I'm aware, which is a shame because like that's a texture. Very well suited tto meet replacement for ducks. So we found out time for this week's podcast,

Neil Thornton:   30:58
but I have so many good news storeys

Jack Ratcliffe:   31:00
left. Well, I'm afraid I've already pushed the music. Vadim Buzz Um which is a real butter? Not like an abstract concept. Music playing 55 s o the one I mucked up on a man drove a stranger 400 miles

Neil Thornton:   31:13
out of his way to visit his dying

Jack Ratcliffe:   31:14
mother. Students in Ukraine are learning how to spot a fake news storeys and propaganda and hate speech in classes

Neil Thornton:   31:19
Eight year old

Jack Ratcliffe:   31:19
cancer survivors, thousands of toys for Children hospital. And they were the biggest city in the U. S. Fanfare Sales Women discovered a way. Thanks for listening to this week's podcast if you liked it, don't forget common and subscribe on rate and review and remove. You know, that's a comment just e mean anything, really. Just do those things that you're supposed to do that every night says to do on Comeback next time is the next. Next next come back and look out for the episode five by five is full. But we've done that. Yeah, keep those notifications on subscribe water download. Actually, I really don't think that we should keep the notifications on way too many notifications, and it's detrimental to get rid of the others and just have ours. I think people should get rid of all notifications. Wait on I